Alan Watts interviewed by Esalen co-founder Michael Murphy (1966) - Part One
Alan Watts & Michael Murphy in 1966: Is humanity a fluke or integral to nature? Explore consciousness, analysis, and our relationship with the universe.
In a 1966 dialogue, Esalen co-founder Michael Murphy interviewed philosopher Alan Watts, exploring fundamental questions about human consciousness, humanity's relationship with the natural world, and the potential for future evolution. Watts, a prominent interpreter of Eastern philosophical traditions for Western audiences, argued that the human capacity for focused, analytical attention, while enabling technological advancement, also leads to a detrimental separation from the interconnectedness of existence.
Watts, born in England, moved to the United States in 1938. He pursued Zen training in New York, earned a master's degree in theology, and was ordained an Episcopal priest in 1945. He left the ministry in 1950 and relocated to California, joining the faculty of the American Academy of Asian Studies. During the 1950s, he hosted a radio show on KPFA, discussing Eastern contemplative traditions, and met Esalen co-founders Dick Price and Michael Murphy. By 1966, Watts was a renowned interpreter of Zen Buddhism, Taoism, and Hindu metaphysics for American audiences, influencing countercultural movements and intellectuals. He taught at Esalen from 1962 until his death in 1973, finding a context for synthesizing Eastern traditions with Western psychological inquiry.
The conversation took place during a period of significant social upheaval, including the escalation of the Vietnam War, the rise of the Civil Rights Movement, and the emergence of hippie and psychedelic cultures. This context fueled a widespread questioning of established authority, providing a backdrop for Watts and Murphy's examination of human consciousness and American cultural expression.
The Paradox of Human Consciousness
Murphy initiated the discussion by posing the question of how to define the success of a biological species. He contrasted the long-term survival of species like ants with the human tendency towards seeking significant experiences, even at the cost of longevity. Watts elaborated on this, suggesting that while survival is a necessary criterion for value, it must be accompanied by a certain quality of existence. He referenced T.S. Eliot's "The Waste Land" and G.K. Chesterton's contrasting views on endings, illustrating the human inclination towards a "bang" over a prolonged, perhaps mundane, existence. Watts used the analogy of butter on bread to highlight the choice between immediate gratification and cautious, prolonged use.
Watts then considered humanity's place in the cosmic process, suggesting that humans might be a "magnificently unnatural thing," an aberration or abnormality that could represent a peak in a cosmic cycle. He questioned whether humanity is in transition to a more fabulous existence.
The Spotlight of Attention and Its Limitations
Watts posited that human beings have specialized in developing consciousness through a capacity for concentrated attention, akin to a spotlight supplementing the broader sensitivity of other organisms. This faculty, he explained, is essential for pursuits like literature, science, mathematics, and music, enabling the analysis and quantification of experience into discrete "things and events." This analytical process, he argued, underpins the development of technology, allowing for the description of reality through symbols like numbers and words.
However, Watts identified two significant limitations arising from this analytical focus. Firstly, the ability to see the world in separate, analyzed detail obscures the fundamental interconnectedness of all things. He drew an analogy to medical specialization, where focusing on individual organs can lead to unintended consequences for the whole organism, likening it to the sorcerer's apprentice unable to control the magic he unleashed.
Secondly, this separative thinking leads to viewing the human being as an entity distinct from its environment. Watts contrasted two images: a barren tree with birds settled upon it, representing the Western view of humans as strangers in the world, versus a tree with its own fruit and leaves, symbolizing an organic belonging. Despite biological evidence of human evolution from nature, Watts argued that the operative Western philosophy views humanity as a "fluke," an intelligence and set of values that nature does not inherently support and against which humans must fight. He linked this to 19th-century scientific thought and Plato's concept of the spirit imprisoned in matter, noting that the modern substitution of "fluke" for "spirit" serves a similar purpose in detaching humanity from its natural origins.
Nature as an Intelligent Field
Watts challenged the notion of humans as a fluke, asserting that biological and ecological studies demonstrate that humanity could only exist within its specific environment—a planet with a sun, moon, atmosphere, and other conditions. He proposed that this environment is as much a "man-growing environment" as an apple tree is an "apple-growing tree," implying that nature itself is inherently human-inclusive. He argued that the idea of the "pathetic fallacy" (attributing human values to an inhuman nature) is based on the false assumption of separation.
Instead, Watts suggested that an organism and its environment are not distinct but are part of the same phenomenon. He introduced the concept of the environment as a "field" where all actions are actions of the field itself. Using the example of boiling water, where bubbles emerge at specific points but are a property of the entire heated field, he proposed that intelligence, like bubbles, emerges at specific "cross points of stress" within the universal field. He extended this to scientific discovery, noting how multiple physicists can arrive at the same conclusion simultaneously, suggesting a shared field of knowledge reaching a critical point.
Watts concluded that the analytical, separative way of thinking makes it difficult for individuals to recognize themselves as functions of this field. This leads to a perception of being "foreign, alien islands of consciousness" in an unconscious universe, necessitating a "war on the universe." He criticized the Western philosophy of conquering nature, citing the United States' technologically advanced yet environmentally destructive practices, such as using bulldozers to reshape hillsides, which disrupt ecosystems and lead to erosion. He contrasted this with the respect shown by so-called "primitive" peoples for natural phenomena, suggesting that such respect acknowledges a complex balance of forces beyond current rational comprehension.
Watts advocated for a shift in spirit and approach, emphasizing that the way a task is performed is as important as the task itself. He proposed an attitude of "loving respect" for the natural environment, viewing it as an extension of one's own physical body. He reiterated that the natural environment is continuous with the human body, as the organization of humanity is a product of the total environment, not an external imposition.
Nature's Playfulness and Exuberance
Murphy then inquired if emergent qualities, new modes of being, are still occurring in nature, and if this process continues with humans. Watts affirmed this possibility, suggesting that humans constantly generate new versions of the "good life." He characterized nature not as seriously purposive but as "playful," engaging in an "infinitely inventive genius for variety" based on underlying unity, much like the spokes of a wheel radiating from a hub.
He rejected the idea of nature as a pilgrimage towards a distant goal, instead viewing its processes as driven by exuberance. He used the example of trees producing an abundance of seeds, not solely for efficient reproduction, but as an expression of sheer joy. Similarly, he suggested that sexual intercourse can be for pleasure and connection, not just procreation, and that the vastness of stars and the unobserved beauty of nature, like flowers blooming in unseen valleys, are expressions of this exuberance. He concluded that these phenomena are "just for the hell of it," embodying a spirit of unadulterated existence.
Introduction and Context
The introduction sets the stage for the interview, introducing Alan Watts and Michael Murphy, and highlighting the historical context of 1966 with social upheaval and countercultural movements. It frames Watts as a key figure in transmitting Eastern philosophy to the West and emphasizes the unique nature of this interview.
- The interview is between Alan Watts and Esalen co-founder Michael Murphy, recorded in 1966.
- Alan Watts was a British philosopher known for interpreting Eastern traditions (Zen Buddhism, Taoism, Hindu metaphysics) for Western audiences.
- Watts taught at Esalen from 1962 until his death in 1973, exploring the synthesis of Eastern traditions and Western psychological inquiry.
- The interview takes place during a period of social upheaval, including the Vietnam War and the rise of countercultural movements.
- Watts is described as having a profound ability to make profound statements, even about mundane topics.
Defining Success: Survival vs. Impact
Watts begins by contrasting different views of species success: long-term survival versus a 'bang' of significant impact. He questions whether human existence, with its capacity for intense focus and analysis, might be an 'aberration' or a magnificent, albeit unnatural, peak in the cosmic process.
- Success of a species can be viewed as long-term survival (like ants) or impactful existence (like a dinosaur).
- Humans might aspire to long-term survival but find it dull; some prefer a significant impact over a long, mundane existence.
- T.S. Eliot's 'The Waste Land' suggests the world ends 'not with a bang but a whimper'.
- Chesterton contrasted this with a desire for a 'bang'.
- Watts posits that humanity might be an 'aberration' or 'unnatural thing', but also a 'magnificently unnatural thing'.
The Power and Limitations of Conscious Attention
Watts explains that human consciousness is marked by a specialized capacity for 'conscious attention' – the ability to concentrate on segments of experience. This analytical focus, while enabling technology and scientific pursuits, leads to limitations by obscuring the interconnectedness of things and the relationship between humanity and its environment.
- Humanity has specialized in concentrating consciousness on segmented areas of experience, using 'conscious attention'.
- This faculty is crucial for pursuits like reading, writing, music, mathematics, and engineering.
- Concentration allows for quantification and analysis, leading to technology.
- This analytical focus requires the use of symbols (numbers, words, notation).
- A major limitation is the inability to see the interconnectedness of things, leading to over-specialization (like in medicine).
Humanity's Place in Nature: Fluke or Integral Part?
Watts challenges the Western view of humans as strangers in nature, like birds on a barren tree. He argues that biological and ecological studies show humans are an integral part of nature, a 'human-growing environment'. The idea of humans being a 'fluke' or antagonistic to nature stems from a 19th-century scientific philosophy and Platonic dualism.
- The Western view sees humans as strangers in nature, like birds on a barren tree.
- Biological sciences suggest humans evolved from the earth, like grass.
- The operative philosophy is that humans are a 'fluke' with intelligence and values that nature doesn't support, requiring a fight against nature.
- This philosophy emerged from 19th-century science, substituting 'fluke' for Plato's 'spirit'.
- This view lacks rational continuity with what came before, akin to 'evolutionary hiccups'.
The Unified Field of Organism and Environment
Watts refutes the 'fluke' theory by emphasizing that the environment is a 'human-growing environment', just as an apple tree is an 'apple-growing tree'. He argues that an intelligent organism cannot exist in an unintelligent environment, and that organism and environment are fundamentally the same thing, a unified field.
- The environment is a 'human-growing environment', just as an apple tree is an 'apple-growing tree'.
- Nature is not inhuman; if humans grow from it, it is 'human-infusing nature'.
- An intelligent organism implies an intelligent environment.
- The behavior of an organism and its environment are inseparable and essentially the same.
- The concept of organism-environment can be replaced by a 'field' concept, where actions within the field are actions of the field itself.
The Field of Intelligence and the Conquest of Nature
Watts uses the analogy of boiling water and scientific discoveries to illustrate how intelligence emerges within a field. He criticizes the analytical, separative way of thinking that makes individuals feel like 'alien islands of consciousness', leading to a 'war on the universe' and the conquest of nature, exemplified by destructive environmental practices.
- Intelligence emerges in a field at 'cross points of stress', like bubbles in boiling water or simultaneous scientific discoveries.
- Analytical thinking makes it hard to see oneself as a function of a field.
- Feeling like 'alien islands of consciousness' leads to a 'war on the universe'.
- Western man's philosophy is the 'conquest of nature'.
- Examples include bulldozing mountains and upsetting hill ecology, showing a lack of respect for natural phenomena.
Nature's Exuberance and a Call for Respect
Watts advocates for a shift from conquering nature to approaching it with 'loving respect', viewing the environment as an extension of our own bodies. He argues that nature is not separate from us but is what the total environment is 'doing', and that its exuberance, like abundant seeds or stars, is not about efficiency but about the sheer joy of existence.
- We should approach nature with 'loving respect', seeing it as an extension of our bodies.
- The natural environment is continuous with the human body; man is what the total environment is doing.
- Nature is not purposive but playful and exuberant, celebrating itself with infinite variety.
- The abundance of seeds from trees is not for efficiency but for the joy of it.
- This exuberance is seen in stars, streams, and flowers blooming unseen, representing existence for its own sake, not for utility.
