~5m1:22:51The Better Broken Podcast | Wil Willis (Full Episode)
Sep 2, 2023
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The Better Broken Podcast | Wil Willis (Full Episode)
From Army Ranger to Air Force PJ to TV Host! Wil Willis shares intense military stories, the brutal PJ pipeline, and his journey to 'Forged in Fire'.
This article details the extensive military career and subsequent television career of Wil Willis, focusing on his experiences as an Army Ranger and Air Force Pararescueman (PJ), and his transition into hosting shows like "Forged in Fire."
Military Service: Ranger and PJ
Willis initially considered joining the Air Force to become a PJ, drawn to the special operations aspect and the medical field. However, a change in recruiters led him to the Army, where he was inspired by the Ranger program. He enlisted shortly after the Mogadishu incident in 1994 and served in the 75th Ranger Regiment from 1994 to 1998, specifically in the 3rd Ranger Battalion. He described the intense selection process, noting that out of 13 individuals who joined his platoon on the first night, only five remained by the next day.
Dissatisfied with certain aspects of Army training and observing the perceived benefits and advanced training of PJs, Willis decided to transition to the Air Force. He enlisted as a PJ, experiencing a pay grade reduction from E5 to E4. The Air Force's PJ indoctrination course, which lasted approximately 10 weeks, proved to be a significant attrition point, with only about 18 out of an initial 120 recruits graduating the initial phase, and ultimately around 14 becoming PJs.
The PJ pipeline involved several selection processes, including:
- Scuba School: One PJ graduate from the indoctrination course was washed out during scuba school.
- Airborne School: While attrition is low for those who have completed indoctrination, some individuals do wash out.
- SEAR School: Minimal attrition was reported.
- Dunker Training: This aircraft egress training, conducted in Jacksonville, Florida, involved a two-day simulation where recruits had to escape a submerged mockup aircraft. Willis described it as more of a joke than a rigorous selection.
- Paramedic Program (SAMI/Special Operations Combat Medic Course): Willis attended SAMI, which he described as a rigorous course with significant attrition, losing approximately half the participants. He noted the difference between SAMI's trauma-focused training and the Air Force's basic paramedic course at Kirtland Air Force Base, which lacked live tissue training. He highlighted the importance of military medicine, which prioritizes Circulation, Airway, Breathing (CAB) over the civilian Airway, Breathing, Circulation (ABC) approach.
- Freefall School: This phase also had attrition, with one instance of a student refusing to pull his parachute, leading to his removal from the course.
Willis emphasized that the entire pipeline is a selection process, with continuous evaluation of skills and performance. He also noted the presence of behavioral issues among younger recruits, leading to washouts.
Transition to Television
After leaving active duty in 2007, Willis pursued a career in television. His entry into the industry was somewhat accidental, beginning with a role on the set of "Beerfest." He was later recommended to explore acting classes as a way to vent aggression, stemming from a command-directed anger management program he attended due to a habit of speaking his mind candidly.
A producer seeking a PJ to host a show called "True Stories of Para Rescue" contacted Willis, having learned of his background in acting classes and his passion for movies. This led to a screen test and his first hosting opportunity. His background as a former Army Ranger and PJ was a significant asset.
This initial success led to other opportunities, including a sizzle reel for "Deadliest Warrior" and subsequently hosting shows like "Spec Ops Mission," where participants attempted to replicate real-world missions. Willis described the challenges of this show, including producers limiting information and orchestrating scenarios, which he felt compromised the authenticity of the missions. He also hosted a show about firearms called "Triggers" on the Military Channel and Discovery.
"Forged in Fire" and Industry Conflicts
Willis's most prominent television role was as a host on the History Channel's "Forged in Fire." He described the show as celebrating a "Modern Renaissance," emphasizing craftsmanship and the creation of beautiful and functional items from raw materials. He valued the show's focus on inspiring people and acknowledging the effort and skill of the contestants.
However, Willis also expressed significant conflicts with the show's production, particularly regarding what he perceived as compromises to integrity and standards. He cited instances where he believed decisions were influenced by factors other than merit, such as altering results to favor contestants with compelling stories or to maintain the perceived invincibility of judges. He argued that this undermined the show's authenticity and defrauded both the contestants and the audience.
Willis's uncompromising attitude and his insistence on adhering to established standards led to friction with producers. He recounted an incident where he refused to announce a judge as the winner because he believed the contestant had been unfairly defeated. This, along with drawings found in his trailer that producers deemed threatening, resulted in his dismissal from the show in February 2020. He described this as being "Jerry Maguire-d at a coffee shop."
Reflections on Military Culture and Compromise
Throughout the conversation, Willis repeatedly emphasized the importance of uncompromising standards, particularly in military and special operations environments. He contrasted this with the perceived need for compromise in civilian life and television production. He argued that compromise can lead to weakness and a dilution of integrity.
He also touched upon the concept of "warrior culture," referencing instances of physical altercations within units as a means of resolving conflict and building camaraderie. He differentiated between being "Ranger qualified" (having attended Ranger School) and being a "Ranger" (serving in the 75th Ranger Regiment), stating that the latter is a distinct and more demanding experience.
Willis also discussed the challenges veterans face transitioning to civilian life, particularly the need to compromise in the workplace, which can be difficult for individuals accustomed to the uncompromising nature of military service.
Mental Health and Resilience
Towards the end of the discussion, Willis addressed men's mental health, distinguishing between sadness and clinical depression. He advocated for acknowledging and processing emotions rather than simply telling individuals to "stop being a [expletive]." He shared his own experiences with sadness and the importance of finding support, such as through brotherhood and community, to navigate difficult times. He also reflected on the inherent risks in military operations, such as parachute jumps, and his personal comfort with the idea of death, while still valuing the legacy of one's soul. He criticized the notion of compromising one's core values or vision for success.
Introduction and Military Beginnings
The episode begins with a discussion about whiskey preferences, setting a relaxed tone before diving into Wil Willis's military background. He clarifies his service as a PJ (Pararescueman) rather than a Ranger, correcting a common misconception.
- The conversation starts with a discussion about different types of whiskey, including Woodford Reserve and Buffalo Trace.
- Wil Willis clarifies that his primary special operations role was as an Air Force Pararescueman (PJ), not a Ranger.
- He initially considered the Air Force due to his father's service and an interest in the medical aspect of being a PJ.
- A recruiter's statement about being assigned any role, like a cook, deterred him from the Air Force initially.
- He joined the Army with the intention of becoming a Ranger, drawn by the adventure and brotherhood.
From Ranger to PJ: A Shift in Focus
Will Willis details his journey through the Army, including Ranger training, and his subsequent decision to become an Air Force PJ. He contrasts the training philosophies and the perceived benefits of each role, highlighting the rigorous selection and training pipelines.
- Willis describes the intense, negative reinforcement atmosphere of Ranger training, which paradoxically motivated him.
- He served in the 90s, entering service shortly after the Mogadishu incident.
- He experienced significant attrition in his Ranger company, with many quitting after initial training.
- He observed PJs having better living conditions and advanced training opportunities compared to Rangers.
- The desire for specialized training and career progression led him to transition to the Air Force to become a PJ.
The Rigorous PJ Pipeline
The conversation shifts to the demanding PJ indoctrination and training pipeline, emphasizing the high attrition rates and the diverse skill sets required. Willis breaks down the various stages, including scuba school, airborne, SERE, and paramedic training, highlighting the intensity and selection process at each step.
- The PJ indoctrination course has a high attrition rate, with only a fraction of initial candidates graduating.
- The entire pipeline, from indoctrination to final qualification, serves as a continuous selection process.
- Scuba school and SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape) are noted as challenging phases.
- Paramedic training (SAMI - Special Operations Combat Medic Course) is described as extremely rigorous, with significant washout rates.
- Willis contrasts the comprehensive training at SAMI with the more basic paramedic course at Kirtland AFB, emphasizing the value of trauma medicine and military-specific medical knowledge.
Warrior Culture and Uncompromising Standards
Willis discusses the warrior culture within special operations, including the emphasis on direct confrontation and the 'take it to the woodline' mentality. He contrasts the Ranger and PJ cultures, noting his own struggles with adapting his Ranger-honed attitude to the Air Force environment and the importance of not compromising integrity.
- He describes instances of physical confrontations and arguments within military units as a way to resolve issues and build camaraderie.
- He contrasts the 'fist to cuffs' culture of Rangers with the more structured environment of the Air Force PJs.
- Willis admits his off-duty behavior was sometimes 'reprehensible' and didn't align with the expectations of the PJ culture.
- He expresses a strong aversion to compromise, particularly when it affects integrity, morals, or operational effectiveness.
- He regrets not being deployed and attributes this partly to his own attitude and behavior.
Transition to Television
The discussion moves to Willis's transition into the television industry, detailing how his military background and personality led him to hosting roles. He explains his initial foray into acting and how a producer sought a PJ to host 'True Stories of Para Rescue,' leading to opportunities on shows like 'Deadliest Warrior' and 'Forged in Fire.'
- Willis was sent to command-directed anger management due to his tendency to 'pop off' and speak his mind.
- He had prior, accidental exposure to the set of 'Beerfest'.
- A producer sought a PJ to host 'True Stories of Para Rescue,' seeing his potential due to his background and acting classes.
- His military experience and ability to present information naturally led to hosting opportunities.
- He hosted shows like 'Deadliest Warrior' (sizzle reel) and 'Spec Ops Mission,' and later became the host of 'Forged in Fire'.
Integrity and Conflict on 'Forged in Fire'
Willis elaborates on his experience hosting 'Forged in Fire,' emphasizing his commitment to authenticity and standards. He discusses conflicts with producers over narrative manipulation and the importance of maintaining the integrity of the competition, highlighting his 'uncompromising' nature.
- Willis valued the 'Modern Renaissance' aspect of 'Forged in Fire,' celebrating craftsmanship and creation.
- He clashed with producers over altering competition results or creating false narratives.
- He refused to announce a winner he believed was undeserving, citing integrity issues.
- His drawings in his trailer led to his dismissal from the show, which he views as a pretext.
- He believes compromising standards for storytelling or personal preference undermines the show's credibility and inspirational value.
Mental Health, Compromise, and Legacy
The conversation concludes with reflections on mental health, the challenges veterans face with compromise in civilian life, and the importance of maintaining one's core identity. Willis shares personal struggles and emphasizes that true mental toughness involves understanding and processing emotions, not just suppressing them.
- Willis discusses the difficulty veterans have with the concept of compromise in civilian jobs after experiencing an uncompromising military environment.
- He touches on the difference between sadness and clinical depression, advocating for emotional expression.
- He shares personal experiences with sadness and suicidal ideation, emphasizing the need for self-awareness and support.
- He critiques the 'stop being a pussy' mentality as an oversimplification of mental health challenges.
- The episode ends with a reflection on the importance of integrity, standards, and authentic self-expression, both in military service and in life.