Dr. Julie de Azevedo is a therapist who has practiced for more than 30 years. She works mainly with women from Mormon backgrounds, and she has spoken publicly about gender roles, sexuality, and religious trauma in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). She is formerly known as Dr. Julie Hanks. This article summarizes her account of her upbringing, her clinical work, and her views on the church.

Background and Path to Therapy

De Azevedo grew up in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles, in a creative family. Her father is a musician. She was the second of nine children in a large Mormon family. She says Mormonism shaped her strongly.

As a teenager, she experienced sibling rivalry and developed an eating disorder. Her parents arranged for her to see a therapist. She describes that experience as life-changing. It led her to examine her internal world and to develop awareness of her thoughts, feelings, and identity. She later decided to become a therapist.

She states that she has been in therapy on and off throughout her life, because she believes all good therapists need their own therapist.

She married at 20 and had her first child at 21. During this period, she worked as a performing songwriter while attending school.

Gender Roles and Church Structure

De Azevedo describes the LDS Church as holding a complementarian view of gender. Under this view, men are suited by nature to serve as providers, protectors, and heads of the family. Women are suited to nurture and care for children. The church teaches that men and women are equal in value. De Azevedo states that women are not equal in organizational power.

Her account of the church's structure is as follows:

• All worthy men are ordained to the priesthood starting at age 11. Girls are not ordained.
• Priesthood ordination is required for the highest callings, including bishop, which she compares to a pastor, and stake president, which she compares to a diocese leader.
• Women can hold leadership callings, but a priesthood authority oversees them at every level.
• The Relief Society General Presidency leads the women's organization worldwide. It operates under the First Presidency, which consists of three men.

She describes the lay structure of the church. Local congregations, called wards, are run by volunteers who also hold jobs and raise families. Her account of this structure is that a member may hold a volunteer role requiring up to 20 hours a week over a lifetime.

De Azevedo states that these structures shaped her childhood. She observed that her father held considerably more power in her parents' marriage than her mother did. She decided early that she would organize her life differently from her mother and from many women around her, who had limited choices and were often unaware of other options.

She described birth control as discouraged in the 1960s and 1970s, which contributed to large families. She notes that men were also discouraged from using birth control.

Sexuality, Modesty, and Body Image

De Azevedo identifies sexual shame and body shame as among the most common concerns she sees.

• Modesty: The church's teaching on modesty is interpreted in the culture as requiring women to cover their bodies. Garments that are considered immodest include those that show the shoulders, cleavage, or lengths above the knee. She describes extensive monitoring of women's appearance, which she says creates insecurity.
• Law of chastity: Church doctrine holds that sexual relations are permitted only within marriage. Sex outside marriage is considered a serious violation. Individuals with sexual experience before marriage often feel significant shame.
• Sexual dysfunction: Young adults who marry with no sexual experience often lack knowledge and comfort. De Azevedo states that this can lead to sexual dysfunction and difficulty.

Her Clinical Approach

De Azevedo identifies an underdeveloped sense of self as the central issue in her practice. She describes it as the core from which other problems develop, including sexual shame, body shame, and difficulty identifying personal needs.

She notes that many women have not been encouraged to consider their own wants. When she asks clients what they want from their lives, she says they often seem surprised by the question. She attributes this to the expectation that women serve their families and communities.

Her first step with a client is to help her tune in to herself. She asks questions such as "What feels good to you?" and "What do you want in your life?" She includes sensual experience in this inquiry, but she does not focus on sexual experience at this stage. She states that passion appears in many forms and that developing passion across several areas of life typically includes sexuality.

She also describes her work with couples and mixed-faith couples, which she addresses below.

Response from Church Leaders and Members

De Azevedo states that the church has responded negatively to her public work. She began posting content that challenged church teachings about 10 to 11 years ago, based on patterns she observed in her practice, particularly concerning women and LGBTQ people. She says these groups are not treated equally in the church.

She reports the following:

• Church leaders called her in on several occasions and counseled her to step back. She describes the counsel as benevolent and patriarchal in tone.
• Being called in was one factor in her decision to stop attending church.
• Active members have bullied and harassed her. She attributes this to a perceived conflict between her message of self-development and the church's emphasis on belonging to the community.

She states that she aims to correct an imbalance. In her view, individuals need both a strong sense of self and a sense of belonging, but the church emphasizes belonging to the community too heavily. She describes the church as a high-demand religion.

She reports seeing dozens of women in a row who believed that their struggles reflected personal failure. She concluded that the problem is systemic, which led her to pursue cultural change through public speaking and online content.

Transgender Policy

De Azevedo describes church policy on transgender members as unacceptable. She states that the church previously required transgender people to use the bathroom corresponding to the gender assigned at birth. She says this policy was one for which she was criticized. She also reports that other policies barred transgender people from working with children and youth. She states that the church did not give reasons for these policies, but she considers that they imply a rationale. She describes the policies as unequal, unfair, and unhealthy.

Polygamy and Eternal Sealing

Many outside observers associate Mormonism with polygamy. De Azevedo explains that the mainstream LDS Church abandoned the practice in the early 1900s. Fundamentalist groups that broke away from the mainstream church continued it.

She explains that polygamy persists in a different form in LDS doctrine:

• Members can be sealed in LDS temples to a spouse for time and all eternity.
• If a wife dies, a husband can be sealed to another woman. Both women cannot be alive at the same time for this sealing to occur.
• A woman cannot be sealed to two men. Only men may be sealed to more than one spouse.
• Sealing means that a couple is promised to remain together forever if they are righteous and keep the commandments.

She states that she is sealed to her former husband, who is sealed to another woman, even though they are not legally married. She reports that she would have to break a similar barrier to be sealed to a new spouse in the temple, and that men do not face the same barrier. She describes this as a form of polygamy in the afterlife.

Religious Trauma

De Azevedo defines religious trauma as any experience that overwhelms a person's ability to cope, when that experience relates to religious teachings or a religious leader. Examples include abuse of power. She notes that religious trauma takes many forms and occurs whenever a religious context exceeds a person's coping capacity.

Leaving the Church

De Azevedo works frequently with mixed-faith couples, in which one partner no longer believes while the other remains in the church. She describes leaving as a serious threat to family and community. Under LDS doctrine, the family sealing extends to children. A person who leaves may lose the blessings of being sealed to a spouse and children in the afterlife.

She states that she remained in the church longer than was best for her, because she hoped to make a difference for women. After stepping back, she reports that she now sees people in the church as more binary in their thinking. She describes this as an either-or view: a person is either in or out.

She says she does not hate the church. She wants it to improve. She describes church members as her people and states that she still works with many women who were or are Mormon.

Personal Beliefs

De Azevedo states that she does not know whether the core claims of Mormonism are true. She says God may or may not exist, and the Book of Mormon may or may not be an ancient record.

She contrasts her position with the value the church places on certainty. Members often declare that they know the church is true. She describes testimony meetings, in which members stand before the congregation and speak extemporaneously about their feelings regarding God and Jesus. She compares these meetings to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings.

When asked whether members who are true believers have been brainwashed, de Azevedo declined the term. She described members as highly influenced by the religion.

Perfectionism and High-Demand Religion

De Azevedo identifies perfectionism as a major issue in her office. Many women feel they are not good enough, not doing enough, or not perfect enough. She cites a scripture in the New Testament that instructs believers to be perfect. She states that, in the culture, this has come to mean external flawlessness, including the appearance of children, homes, and personal presentation.

She attributes some of this focus on appearance to the church's valuation of women for child-rearing and wifely duties. She says that beauty is a socially acceptable form of value in this context. She also describes a patriarchal dynamic in which some women use beauty to gain influence in their marriages. She cites church leaders who have encouraged women to maintain their appearance and wear lipstick to appeal to their husbands.

Regional Differences

De Azevedo describes church life in Utah as different from church life in Los Angeles. In Utah, members often live within blocks of their ward members and encounter them constantly in daily life. In Los Angeles, she says members usually see one another only at church activities.

She states that she has also seen members of polygamist communities and considers them a different group from the mainstream church.

Women's Development and Personal Experience

De Azevedo describes a turning point during her first year of college, when the then-prophet gave a talk encouraging women to stay home with their children and not work. She states that the talk linked divorce to women working outside the home. She describes this message as traumatic.

Despite this message, she pursued graduate study and built a career. She describes her approach as partly rebellious and partly people-pleasing. She states that she excelled in areas beyond home and family as a form of rebellion against the expectation that she would not do so.

She attributes her determination to two factors: her early experience of therapy as a teenager, which helped her recognize that she had a self, and an early expectation of equality in her marriage. She says she decided that no other person, including church leaders, her bishop, or her husband, would live her life.

She also says that she is financially independent and that she holds the view that women should be able to support themselves. She stated that she had considered her father's control of household finances as a sign of unequal power in her parents' marriage.

She states that women in her practice often marry young, leave school or leave work, and later arrive in her office in their 40s or 50s. She reports that many of these women do not know themselves, are divorcing, lack marketable skills, and are unprepared to live as single adults. She describes financial dependence on a husband as a serious risk.

She states that gender roles remain rigid worldwide. She says the church's message has softened since her childhood but still emphasizes marrying early, having children early, and having many children.

Core Issues Observed in Church Members

De Azevedo lists several patterns she observes among women in the LDS Church:

• A lack of self-knowledge
• An external locus of control, in which truth and direction are located outside the individual, in God, the prophet, or church leaders
• Shame
• Enmeshment and low differentiation of self, in which families are over-involved in adult children's lives

She links enmeshment to the church's teaching that families are forever and that family is the most important thing. She calls this teaching beautiful and says she fully supports it. She states that it can become dysfunctional when it produces over-involvement. She describes clients who call their mothers their best friends and says that a parent is not an equal peer. She describes this as a kernel of truth that grows into an unhealthy cultural pattern.

She acknowledges that many members are happy and thrive, including women who feel valued and equal in the church.

Church Change

De Azevedo describes church change as slow. She reports signs that church leaders are listening to women. She also states that women are leaving religion, including the LDS Church, at higher rates than men for the first time in history.

She argues that the LDS Church is the only institution in America that tells women they cannot hold certain roles because they are women. She states that this message differs from what children learn in schools.

She respects members who do not share her view. She notes that complementarianism can work well for women whose values and goals align with church teachings. She says she is personally satisfied in her own roles as a wife and mother.

Clients and Therapeutic Outcomes

De Azevedo's clients are mostly middle-aged and older women. She also sees some couples. A common presenting problem is an underdeveloped sense of self in women who married and had children young. When their children grow up or leave home, these women are left alone with themselves and do not know who they are.

She also works with religious trauma and sexual abuse. She states that these problems occur in every community.

She describes progress as women beginning to turn inward and get to know themselves. She asks clients what they think, feel, want, and need, and she encourages them to ask themselves these questions daily, spend time alone, and reflect. She states that some clients have never considered what they enjoy doing for fun. She describes the shift from an external to an internal locus of control, in which a person understands that she directs her own life, as central to her work. She calls this a continuous process.

She states that her goal is for all women to live fulfilling lives, express themselves, and create the lives they want. She acknowledges that she has considerable privilege. She was raised in a supportive family, received an education, and has a career and a public platform. She states that she uses this platform to give voice to women who lack these advantages. She describes Mormon women as her community.

Media Representation

De Azevedo states that Latter-day Saint content creators have led several online formats, including YouTube, mommy blogging during the peak of blogging, and Instagram. She describes the trad wife trend, which emphasizes traditional gender roles, as strongly associated with LDS women. She offers two explanations:

• Church members are taught to be missionaries and to share the truth of the church through their example.
• Members are often socially trained to appear polished, attractive, and capable.

She cites two cases involving LDS women that drew wide news coverage. Jodi Hildebrandt, a therapist, and Ruby Franke, a YouTuber, were arrested for child abuse involving two of Franke's children. De Azevedo describes these cases as outliers. She states that therapists do not generally abuse children.

She comments on the reality television series Sister Wives, which features polygamous families, and reports that viewers have debated the series' accuracy. She also refers to Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. She reports that active members have objected that these programs do not represent Mormonism. She acknowledges that the programs portray a subset of Mormon women who are working through questions about their lives and marriages. She identifies recurring themes in these shows, including delayed personal development after marrying young and having children young. She also says that The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City includes elements of Mormon culture.

She states that she expects public interest in Mormon women to continue.

She says media representations of the church are not accurate. Content creators seek to sensationalize their material. She notes that the everyday lives of most Mormon wives are ordinary. She describes a typical day as attending children's activities, preparing meals, volunteering at school, and possibly holding a part-time job. She acknowledges that such content does not attract large audiences.

She notes an irony. Some content creators who portray stay-at-home motherhood earn millions of dollars. She describes them as businesswomen who present an image of domestic life while managing large teams that curate their public lives.

She acknowledges that her own view is shaped by her clinical experience. She says she sees people for whom the church's model is not working and does not see many members who are content.

Contact Information

De Azevedo's website is drjuliediazavedo.com, and her social media handle is @drjuliediazavedo. Some of her handles are still being transferred following her name change. Her therapy practice, which serves clients in Utah and surrounding states, is Wasatch Family Therapy, at wasatchfamilytherapy.com.